Tapping Into Detroit

10/25/2002 7:00 PM, Yahoo! Music
Dave DiMartino

Since 1997, Stephen Richards (vocals), Mike DeWolf (guitar), Philip Lipscomb (bass), and Jarrod Montague (drums) have been making a name for themselves as Taproot, first in Detroit's underground music scenes, then over the Internet, which they expertly used to build a buzz and fanbase while selling their indie album, Something More Than Nothing. Later, Taproot's profile got a somewhat unwelcome boost via the Internet, when a recording of an infamous phone call from Limp Bizkit's Fred Durst (who was angry that Taproot hadn't signed to Interscope Records, for whom Durst does A&R) showed up on numerous websites. But after Taproot signed with Atlantic, they released two well-received hard rock albums, 2000's Gift and this year's Welcome.

LAUNCH's executive editor Dave DiMartino recently met up with Taproot's Philip Lipscomb and Jarrod Montague about their rise from anonymous Ann Arbor bar band to grass-roots Internet sensation to Durst-fueled urban legend to full-blown rock stars. Here's what they had to say:

LAUNCH: How has your music changed over the years?

PHILIP: Well, when I first started in the band it was a rapcore band, more along the lines of Limp Bizkit and Korn--you know, just like more rappy, with hip-hop beats. The way we've changed is that the music has become more emotional and more melodic, and has more of a vibe to it. Instead of a groove of just hip-hop beats, it's got more of a flow and a vibe, and I think that's a better way to reach people as far as music goes--rather than just making you feel good, it kind of gets inside you and makes you think a little better.

JARROD: Yeah, we started out a long time ago, and our music was more rapcore--a lot of the time changes, where it would go from the heavy to the rap part, with a drum machine and stuff like that. I would say that we've tried to get away from the rapcore a little bit, 'cause it seems that a lot of bands are doing that a lot more, and a lot of bands in my opinion don't do it that well. So we kind of wanted to get out of that rapcore genre and kind of go more toward to melodic--keep the real heavy stuff, but have the melodic choruses and stuff like that, and have something a little more catchy.

LAUNCH: Is there any kind of classification that you guys fit into that makes sense to you?

JARROD: I guess the classification that we often use is "heavy alternative," 'cause like I said, we go from the heavy stuff to the more melodic stuff, and we also have that more melodic element like, say, Depeche Mode or something like that, so we don't like to be classified as anything real specific. So we just say heavy alternative. That kind of leaves it wide open, kind of let you make your own decisions about it.

PHILIP: It's not too pinpoint-y, it's a generalization, kind of lame, but heavy alternative is what we do.

LAUNCH: Where you think you guys fit in with the Detroit rock scene?

PHILIP: As far as following the other bands that have come out of Detroit, I think we're just trying to do the best we can. I don't know how we fit in in the long term. I don't know if we're going to be legendary, something that's going to be talked about. We're just trying to spread our positive message to everybody that we can, and hopefully we will be talked about in the future, that we had a big influence and were one of the great bands that came out of Detroit and put Detroit back on the map. Like. Eminem is helping, Kid Rock...Insane Clown Posse, even. But back in the day, you had the Stooges. I don't know, we're just doing what we can.

JARROD: I don't know if we fit in with any of those. I don't think our attitude fits in with many of those things. Fortunately, I think that we'll be the first of the new wave of rock things coming out of Detroit. There's a band called Factor 81 that we're friends with--they're a great heavy band--and a band called Workhorse who's awesome live, you've got to see them. I think Detroit was labeled recently for more of the rap thing, like Kid Rock and Eminem, but I like to think that we are doing our own thing and paving our own road.

LAUNCH: What's would you say is the biggest break Taproot's had so far?

PHILIP: I think playing on Ozzfest was one of our biggest breaks, 'cause it's one of the biggest tours of the summer and we got to play all over the country on a major tour with great support from our label. I think most bands would have to start off smaller, like doing smaller tours with other bands, and I think that would be harder than just jumping on a big tour like that, 'cause we got to play to more people than most people get to on their first real tour.

JARROD: Being on Ozzfest was the best opportunity because Ozzfest started the day after our [first] album came out. Of course, getting a record deal is a huge break too, but it's kind of like you always worry about taking that next step, and you want to make sure you get your name out there and that everyone hears your music. Getting the record deal is only the first step. I would say that Ozzfest is kind of the next step. Touring with bands like Ozzy, Pantera, Incubus, and Godsmack...it was a just a huge opportunity to be on tour with such big names, plus Ozzfest gets such big press for being the biggest metal tour that there is, so it was just a huge opportunity to get our name out there.

LAUNCH: Tell about the role the Internet has played in the success of Taproot.

PHILIP: From the beginning Mike, our guitarist, and I have developed our website from by promoting it on other websites--like, jumping on other websites and saying, "Hey, you guys ought to come and check out our site." We'd help people out by telling people about their website, kind of like a trade-off thing, and kids seem to dig what we have, music clips and all that stuff. Everything we could to promote our band--not to make money, just to get our name out there, just to reach as many kids as we could. You know, we had people from Australia and Brazil sending us CD orders, all over. It was crazy how many people were coming to our site, when we weren't that big in our own state. But all over the country, we had all of these fans that knew of us.

JARROD: We probably attribute most of our success real early on to the Internet. Mike and Phil are probably the ones who pushed that the most. Actually, a fan of ours was the first to do a Taproot site, and we kind of stole that from him. It was a real cheap Angelfire site, and we said, "Oh, this is pretty cool, we need to start and get that going!" So we stole that from him--took it over and started doing our own thing. But Mike used the Internet as a real marketing tool just to get our name out there; he'd probably spend two hours a night just going into all the major rock and metal websites that he could think of, and he'd say, "I'm in this band Taproot, come check us out, here's an MP3 on our website, you can come check out our site." He'd just spend an hour or two a night doing that, and it ended up creating a buzz about us, and we started selling our own CDs over the Internet. It's just real good to have a website for people to have a way to go check you out without having to go spend money on the CD first.

LAUNCH: As your band gets bigger, do you try to stay in touch with your fanbase?

PHILIP: I still like to think of ourselves as fans--we're still deeply rooted in all the music these days, and when we play a show we like to get out there and meet our fans. We always go out after every show and try to meet as many kids as possible. We're always on the Internet, emailing and talking to kids who have talked to us in the past, and just making friends, as many as we can--'cause we know what it's like to be there, and we feel privileged to be where we are at. I hate seeing a rock star that just walks by: "Hey, can I get a quick autograph," and they're like, "No." I just don't understand that, 'cause it's these kids who have put you where you are. Without them, you ain't nowhere, so you just have to give back whenever you can. To me it means nothing to write my name down, I don't think much of it--but to that person, I know it's a great feeling. You're like, wow. Even talking to someone for a minute, you get to tell your friends about it. You know: "I talked to this person!" It's the greatest feeling in the world.

LAUNCH: Speaking of talking to people...what's this famous story about the phone call you got from Fred Durst?

PHILIP: Well, when Limp Bizkit released Three Dollar Bill, Y'all our singer got an advance copy of it, and on the inside cover it said to send demos to this address. So we did, and Fred really loved it, called us up--like, in the background you can hear him playing out music--and he was like, "Hey guys, I really dig your stuff, I can't wait to meet you guys." He didn't leave a number or anything, but they were playing in town a month later, and Steve and Mike went down to meet him. Everything was cool. Fred treated us great; he told us, "You guys are ready to be signed. I'm going to get you guys to the top, just wait until this stuff hits." And he ended up doing this for like, two years. We kept making demos, sending them to him, and he'd tell us how great it's going to be when it happened, it just never happened. And so at first that was all we had, but we started to get a bigger buzz on the Internet and then other labels started hearing about us, so they started calling us, and we got the opportunity to showcase for Rick Rubin. So we were like, "OK, we got Fred Durst over here, but he's really not doing anything for us yet, and we got Rick Rubin, who did the Chili Peppers and Beastie Boys--he's like this god to us." We couldn't refuse this. So we didn't exactly tell Fred we were going out there, but we figured that he'd understand--he's a businessman, and we're just trying to do what's best for our band. You know, see the other options--not necessarily turning him down. We play a great set for Rick Rubin, who loved it, and when we came back, there's a notorious message from Fred Durst on Steve's machine basically telling us to piss off and to never associate ourselves with Limp Bizkit again, just because we showcased. We didn't even sign with anybody yet, we were just showcasing around, looking at our different options, and Fred got really pissed about it.

LAUNCH: So do you think what you did was wise, or do you have regrets?

PHILIP: Um, I wish we didn't have this beef with Limp Bizkit, but at the same time, I'm glad we didn't go in that direction 'cause as it is we have enough attachment to him and we didn't even sign with them. I think as things go, we did the best we could and did the best thing possible. We got lucky as many times as I think we could have gotten.

JARROD: I don't know, it's kind of helped us and hindered us at the same time, just because Fred did a lot to help us out in the beginning--he was one of the first major people that showed interest in us from a demo we sent to him, but then he kind of slept on for three years. So we kind of had to do what we needed to do. After three years, we started to get our own buzz, and labels kind of looking at us just because of our music and our own merits, without his help, and I think it was at that point that he kind of felt the urge to act on it. And he offered us a deal, which wasn't even a record deal; it was more of a production deal that didn't even guarantee that we would even get signed. So that's when he left the message. And unfortunately that happened in September of 2000, and it still comes up in interviews that we do; we'd like to kind of forget about that and focus more on our music. So I would say it kind helped create a little bit of a buzz about us, but it's kind of hindered us because people associate us with Limp Bizkit instead of look at our music on its own merit.

LAUNCH: Any advice for up-and-coming bands looking to get signed?

PHILIP: Well, we got lucky 'cause we never got signed to a smaller label and got shopped to a bigger label; we basically went straight to the bigger label. But I think if you're a band starting out, you have to watch out for the contract that you sign to a smaller label, 'cause the smaller labels will help you get signed and they'll give you money and studio time all of that stuff, but when you later sign to a big label, you're basically screwed at that point. So be very wary of the smaller label that's signing you, because they're willing to put money on the line but they also want to take a lot in the end. And you can get in a lot of trouble that way.

LAUNCH: What are you learning from being on the road and performing with big rock bands like Incubus and the Deftones?

PHILIP: Playing with Incubus and Deftones, we get to see the crowd reactions that they get, and we try to do our best to, frankly, show them up. We're the opening band, nobody knows who we are compared to them, so we just do our best to do better then they do. Even thought it's high standards, we just try and do better. The only way we can succeed in this business is to try and do better than the people that we respect. So in that sense, we play to crowds and sometimes get lukewarm reactions, sometimes get great reactions, and we just try to play the best show regardless of whether the crowd is just standing there waiting, looking at their watches, or jumping around. We just try to put on the same show for everybody.

JARROD: We're definitely learning stuff from touring with these big bands. We all listened to Incubus and Deftones since we started, and I know they've both been doing it for at least 10 years, so one thing that we've learned from them guys is that success in this kind in this kind of music--heavy music--is not going to be over night. You know, if it's good then it's worth waiting for, and we're willing to take our time at it, just tour our asses off and play as many shows as we can and put everything we have into every show. I mean, it's amazing to watch Deftones every night, because they've been doing it for 12 years and they still go out and kill it every night. And they're still having fun at it, they still have energy, they're not just standing there. So if anything, we've learned that we have to take every opportunity, and take it as seriously as we can. Every time you step onstage is an opportunity to win over hundreds of fans, and that's the only way to get your music out there.

LAUNCH: Is there any kind of message in the music of Taproot that you want to get out there?

PHILIP: Lyrically we tend to be more spiritual and positive than a lot of music these days. Like, I love Korn, I love bands like that, but they're kind of about helping through pain, and I think we try to help more through a positive message.

JARROD: I think probably the overall message is to try and find a balance in your life, and try and see things positively no matter how negative it is. Steve, our singer, bases his lyrics on things that happened negatively in his life, and then he tries to find a positive light or kind of learn some message from those things. And also the music itself balances from the more heavy to the melodic. I mean, we have songs that just make you want to go off in a mosh pit, but we also have songs that you could make you cry, so I think it's all about trying to find that balance, probably.

LAUNCH: Do the critics seem to like you guys?

PHILIP: Yeah, we've gotten great reviews for the most part from everybody that's heard us and really given us a chance. I think the only bad reviews we've got are from people who haven't given it the chance they should have. Sometimes I'll read reviews--not necessarily about us, but other bands that I listen to--and I think the critics kind of I think they already know what they're going to say before they even say it. Like, they categorize somebody: "Oh, this is just another rap-metal band," or "This it just another band that sounds like this." When if you really listen to the band, you see like what is different rather than what is the same.

JARROD: We've definitely got a really good response from critics, I think, although on their first listen I think they want to lump us in with more of the rapcore stuff. But people seem to see there's a little more to Taproot than just that. We've done really well with all the reviews that we've had, especially in the U.K., for some reason--we've gotten four and a half, five stars in a couple different major magazines there. I think critics seem to see after they spend some time with the album that we're doing something a little bit different than the others.

LAUNCH: How did start playing your respective instruments? What or who inspired you?

PHILIP: I actually didn't start playing bass until I was 19 years old, and before that, I'd always been a music fan, but I never played an instrument. My brother plays guitar, and he wanted somebody to accompany him, like play with him, so he sold me his bass, he taught me a few songs. I lived with Jarrod, and Steve lived a few blocks away, so I always had someone to play with, and it's always been fun for me. I love bands like the Chili Peppers and Primus and Rage Against The Machine--their bass player is just amazing, and fun to play along with. I don't know, it's just been a fun experience from the beginning. I've always had great people to play music with.

JARROD: For me, the inspiration was the Metallica album And Justice For All, 'cause that was pretty much the first metal album I ever heard. I listened to a lot of pop when I was growing up: I loved Huey Lewis, INXS, whatever was on Top 40. I'd seen a Minor Threat video where these guys are stagediving and I had never seen anything like that, and I was like, "Oh, that's crazy!" So I asked the kid who owned the video--this was at one of my friend's parties--"What's a heavy band that I could get into just to check out?" And he was like, "Oh, Metallica has a new album, go get that." So I bought the tape, and I literally wore that thing out. "Black" was the first heavy song I ever heard, and it changed my life. I've always listened to heavy metal every since. Maybe a couple years after that, I went out and bought my first drum set and tried to play everything Lars did.

LAUNCH: Is that your favorite album ever?

JARROD: Yeah, probably that record. I've talked to other people who have been into Metallica for years and years, and they say Kill 'Em All is the best album, or Master Of Puppets, but And Justice For All had such an impact on me. I can't listen to everything objectively and say whether that one's the best, 'cause it's the first metal album that I ever heard and it totally changed my life for real, so that's my favorite album of all time.

LAUNCH: Philip, what about you? What's your favorite?

PHILIP: Well, I'll give you a couple of my favorite albums of all time. I love Korn's first album; I think that was one of the huge turning points in my life for like the way I listen to music, 'cause that was such an intense, aggressive album. I didn't know music could be like that. Before that, BloodSugarSexMagik from the Red Hot Chili Peppers was one of my favorite albums, and it still is. I listen to that and I'm just amazed at the stuff that they're doing. Incubus's new album, I still haven't stopped listening to that--lyrically and musically, those guys have grown so much. I've always loved them, but this album was a huge stepping stone for them.

LAUNCH: Is there anybody in the music business that you haven't met yet that you'd like to meet?

JARROD: I've pretty much met everybody, 'cause I got to meet Metallica around six years ago backstage. I'd kind of like to hang out with them a little more, and actually have a conversation with them. But they were the ultimate. Then the Deftones, they were my other one, and I got to meet them and even tour with them. The only other person that I've wanted to meet is Tim Alexander, who is Primus's old drummer and who has his own band now called Laundry; I've always wanted to meet him 'cause he's probably my favorite drummer now, and I actually got to talk to him on the phone because Laundry's manager called and said, "Hey. can you get the guys from Laundry in on the list?" And I said, "Well yeah, how do I get a hold of them?" So I call him up, and I'm like, "Hey dude, what's going on?" I was all nervous, but I got to have a conversation with him. He was like, "If you're not doing anything tonight, come hang out!" I was too nervous to hang out with him, though. But yeah, I've pretty much met everybody...I don't know how we're going to top it.

LAUNCH: What is your overall take on the music scene in general?

PHILIP: I think music these days has this weird sense to it, because MTV instance has no videos until TRL comes on, and by watching TRL you kind of see where music is--you got Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, then you have Eminem and then *NSYNC, and then Korn and Limp Bizkit on there. It's like basically three categories of music that are so huge that everything else is just kind of like...whatever. God, what am I trying to say? I think what people like these days is very extreme. It's hard to say what the middle guys are going to do. The little kids seem to like something and then they like it so much that you can take something that sounds like it and make it just as big as anything else--but if you're trying something different, it's going to be hard to break, I think. We'll see if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

JARROD: I think music business is good right now, the only thing is it's a little bit hard to find the good music that's out there. There's a lot of good bands doing a lot of great stuff, but it's just harder to find because of everything has been overcast by the pop stuff. There are still great bands making great music, but you just have to dig for it.

LAUNCH: What you think is the definition of success?

JARROD: That's tough, 'cause I already consider us a successful band. I mean, we don't have major commercial success, but that's not really important to us. We're willing to take the long road like Deftones and Incubus did. When we met with our manager, the first day, he said, "What is you ultimate goal? What do you want? Who do you want to tour with?" And we were like, "We want to tour with the Deftones." That was the ultimate thing. And we went on tour with them. I think the only other band that I might want to tour with would be Metallica, but I mean, anything else is kind of going to be more and more icing on the cake. We're really happy with the way things are going. If we can record six or seven albums and have them all be solid albums that kids are going to listen to 50 years down the road, I guess that would be success too, but as of now, we consider ourselves pretty successful.

PHILIP: What we feel what makes us successful is just knowing that a whole bunch of kids are liking us and that we can keep touring. It's not necessarily about the money--although that would be nice, so keep buying the record!--but it's not about the money. Basically, if I can tour for the next five years and have a healthy living, and not have to work at a convenience store ever again like I did for four years before I did this, I will be happy, and that's my idea of success. Just to be able to do what I'm doing right now for as long as I can.